I never used to think we should give when in debt. I'd argue with my pastor over it and he'd just smile and shake his head--then tell me that I was missing out on a blessing. I've come to realize he's right, and now, even though my wife and I are deeply in debt I am making every effort to tithe first, and work with the rest. The blessing isn't necessarily physical in nature, but I am growing so much in my spiritual walk by simply trusting God that I don't really care about the physical (though we ARE making every effort to repay the debt!). After all, tithing is the one area in the bible where God tells us to test Him.
September 25, 2008
JVRacing said »
This is a toughy!
I strongly believe in abundance. I believe that God will honor sacrificial giving. I believe that we must give "when it hurts".
In our own lives, however, my wife and I found that when we tried giving more money that we didn't have, while living on credit cards and going further and further into debt, we did not receive any abundant financial blessing of sowing and reaping from that.
We believe that God showed us the verse which says "I desire obedience more than sacrifice." He was telling us that we had to become obedient in our finances first. We needed to learn financial wisdom and responsibility. Then, we could increase our giving. Until that happened, we weren't really giving OUR money, so we couldn't really be blessed for it.
Of course, everyone has to hear from the Lord themselves for their own personal situation, but this is how it worked for us.
September 25, 2008
JVRacing said »
Oh, and I'm not talking about the Tithe! That's NOT negotiable. That money IS NOT ours. It's God's, and we will be under a curse if we don't give it back to Him.
I was referring to offerings over and above the Tithe.
September 25, 2008
ahamilton said »
I am a new believer and I am on fire for the Lord. My husband is not yet a believer. I am struggling with wanting to give more to God, but not wanting to upset my husband, or push him further from Christ. We don't tithe currently, but I do give back in different ways, spreading it out so it doesn't look like one big amount to him. I want to do what is right in the Lord's eyes and not upset my husband. He does say that in the future, once our c.c. debt is gone, he wants to give more. It is my thinking that there will always be something "else" there taking the spot for that money.
Love In Christ
September 25, 2008
Jenn said »
I belive JVRacing is correct. OBEDIENCE is the key to EVERYTHING. The Bible tells us is 2 Corinthians 9:7 "Each man should give what he has decided in is heart to give, not relectantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver". If we give and our heart is worried about a bill that isn't getting paid or what our spouse will say or think, than we must ask ourselves if our heart is giving the way the God wants us to give.
September 25, 2008
Living Stone said »
I do believe that we should be wise with whatever God gives us. But in Matthew 14:13-21, Jesus has a wonderful way of making something out of nothing. Sometimes we think "my four and no more." but if we want to touch the heart of Jesus lets touch the heart of the world. Lets be a faithful giver from every area of our lives and watch God be a faithful provider to every area in our lives.
September 25, 2008
sloopy said »
I believe in what "Jenn" said about giving with a cheerful heart. However, most Americans are in debt - that is just life. People are in debt because they have more bills than money. This is not necessarily a bad thing, it is just a fact. So, does that mean someone in debt cannot give with a cheerful heart? If you are in debt, you will invariably worry about bills that are not getting paid when you give money. Does that necessarily mean you are not giving with a cheerful heart? I don't know if I agree with that???
September 25, 2008
Jenn said »
Hi sloppy, So do you think a person can give with a cheerful heart knowing in the back of their mind for instance that they just gave the grocery money and now they have to figure out how to feed their children? I agree with you that there are a lot of American in debt, and that yes it is a fact, but we as a society are so okay with just accepting that. God wants SOOOO much for for us.
September 25, 2008
sloopy said »
Hey Jenn. I think that when you are in debt you will worry about what money is going where. I do believe that we should give to God even when we are in debt--that is the part of trusting that God will provide, it is the faith part of our religion. However, I also know that it is natural for people to worry about a bill that might not get paid or grocery money that might not feed the family because it is now going to God. I am not sure that just because someone worries about that--because I think it is natural--that they are not giving with a cheerful heart. Does that make any sense?
September 25, 2008
Jenn said »
I see what you are saying and I do agree with you.
September 25, 2008
Geertsma said »
I agree that this is a tough one. My wife and I currently are in a good place with our money, so we give quite cheerfully.
But I can't say with any certainty that we would do the same if we were struggling with money. We would probably still give to our church, but probably not so cheerfully. Instead, we would give out of our feelings of obligation or even guilt.
September 25, 2008
sloopy said »
Hey Geertsma. I think you are right. It is easy to say you give cheerfully when you are not in debt. However, things change when you have other obligations. I don't think that means you should not give, because you should. I do think that it is hard to say your feelings should be the same whether you are in debt or not. I think this because God calls us to repay our debts. Therefore, we should feel obligated to worry about paying our debt back.
September 25, 2008
Jenn said »
Sloppy, I completely disagree with you when you say "we should be obligated to worry", that contradicts everything the bible instructs about worry. The bible tells us not to worry about ANYTHING. Worry is completely of the enemy to keep us from finding and fulfilling Gods calling on our life.
September 25, 2008
sloopy said »
Jenn, so what would you say about paying back debts? I understand your view on not worrying; however, does that mean not to feel obligated to pay debts? I guess I don't understand how one can not worry about paying debts (something we should do) when money is going elsewhere.
October 01, 2008
Jenn said »
Hi Sloppy, Of course it does not mean we should shuck the responsibility of our debt. Debt is something that we create. If we take out a loan or apply for a credit card or even have a mortgagee we know at the time we apply that we will have to pay back whatever the debt is. I guess my point is really when you think about worrying what does it accomplish? In any given situation or circumstance what are the worst case scenarios? If we default on a credit card a loan or even a mortgagee what is the absolute worst thing that could happen? Worrying about it is not going to change or fix any situation, it will however open the door for the enemy to come in and create false illusions in our mind. Will I go to jail, will somebody think iof me as less of a person or will they think I am irresponsbile? It will also breakdown our ability to seek God for the answers of how we are to fix the mess that we have created for ourselves. I can not speak for everybody, but I can tell you I have spent a lot of time worry about what I will do with different things and what I have learned over the years is that it has not changed anything for me. BUT now that I am older and have been through some stuff I realize that if I seek the leading of the Holy Spirit BEFORE I make a commitment to take out credit of any kind and he give me the lead to move forward I can promise you he will make provision to pay whatever debit I have accrued. Our problem as a society is that we tend to want more than we can afford. Does this make sense?
I know it is hard, but worrying is showing a lack of faith that God will meet our needs. Sometimes we will be pulled and stretched, but IF we stand on what the word says and eb in prayer we can help[ ourselves with the decision we make, thus leaviing less room for worry.
October 01, 2008
sloopy said »
Jenn, I understand your view, but the problem I have is with debt that was not your choice. For example, you have racked up hospital bills due to a sickness. That is debt that you need to pay back. Going into debt is not always a choice that someone can choose not to make.
I guess I feel that worrying is part of the faith we have in God. If you never worry about anything, then what are you really counting on God for? However, if you do worry, but still give, then you are saying that you have faith that God will take care of you...of your worries.
Comments
Chris said »
I never used to think we should give when in debt. I'd argue with my pastor over it and he'd just smile and shake his head--then tell me that I was missing out on a blessing. I've come to realize he's right, and now, even though my wife and I are deeply in debt I am making every effort to tithe first, and work with the rest. The blessing isn't necessarily physical in nature, but I am growing so much in my spiritual walk by simply trusting God that I don't really care about the physical (though we ARE making every effort to repay the debt!). After all, tithing is the one area in the bible where God tells us to test Him.
September 25, 2008
JVRacing said »
This is a toughy!
I strongly believe in abundance. I believe that God will honor sacrificial giving. I believe that we must give "when it hurts".
In our own lives, however, my wife and I found that when we tried giving more money that we didn't have, while living on credit cards and going further and further into debt, we did not receive any abundant financial blessing of sowing and reaping from that.
We believe that God showed us the verse which says "I desire obedience more than sacrifice." He was telling us that we had to become obedient in our finances first. We needed to learn financial wisdom and responsibility. Then, we could increase our giving. Until that happened, we weren't really giving OUR money, so we couldn't really be blessed for it.
Of course, everyone has to hear from the Lord themselves for their own personal situation, but this is how it worked for us.
September 25, 2008
JVRacing said »
Oh, and I'm not talking about the Tithe! That's NOT negotiable. That money IS NOT ours. It's God's, and we will be under a curse if we don't give it back to Him.
I was referring to offerings over and above the Tithe.
September 25, 2008
ahamilton said »
I am a new believer and I am on fire for the Lord. My husband is not yet a believer. I am struggling with wanting to give more to God, but not wanting to upset my husband, or push him further from Christ. We don't tithe currently, but I do give back in different ways, spreading it out so it doesn't look like one big amount to him. I want to do what is right in the Lord's eyes and not upset my husband. He does say that in the future, once our c.c. debt is gone, he wants to give more. It is my thinking that there will always be something "else" there taking the spot for that money.
Love In Christ
September 25, 2008
Jenn said »
I belive JVRacing is correct. OBEDIENCE is the key to EVERYTHING. The Bible tells us is 2 Corinthians 9:7 "Each man should give what he has decided in is heart to give, not relectantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver". If we give and our heart is worried about a bill that isn't getting paid or what our spouse will say or think, than we must ask ourselves if our heart is giving the way the God wants us to give.
September 25, 2008
Living Stone said »
I do believe that we should be wise with whatever God gives us. But in Matthew 14:13-21, Jesus has a wonderful way of making something out of nothing. Sometimes we think "my four and no more." but if we want to touch the heart of Jesus lets touch the heart of the world. Lets be a faithful giver from every area of our lives and watch God be a faithful provider to every area in our lives.
September 25, 2008
sloopy said »
I believe in what "Jenn" said about giving with a cheerful heart. However, most Americans are in debt - that is just life. People are in debt because they have more bills than money. This is not necessarily a bad thing, it is just a fact. So, does that mean someone in debt cannot give with a cheerful heart? If you are in debt, you will invariably worry about bills that are not getting paid when you give money. Does that necessarily mean you are not giving with a cheerful heart? I don't know if I agree with that???
September 25, 2008
Jenn said »
Hi sloppy, So do you think a person can give with a cheerful heart knowing in the back of their mind for instance that they just gave the grocery money and now they have to figure out how to feed their children? I agree with you that there are a lot of American in debt, and that yes it is a fact, but we as a society are so okay with just accepting that. God wants SOOOO much for for us.
September 25, 2008
sloopy said »
Hey Jenn. I think that when you are in debt you will worry about what money is going where. I do believe that we should give to God even when we are in debt--that is the part of trusting that God will provide, it is the faith part of our religion. However, I also know that it is natural for people to worry about a bill that might not get paid or grocery money that might not feed the family because it is now going to God. I am not sure that just because someone worries about that--because I think it is natural--that they are not giving with a cheerful heart. Does that make any sense?
September 25, 2008
Jenn said »
I see what you are saying and I do agree with you.
September 25, 2008
Geertsma said »
I agree that this is a tough one. My wife and I currently are in a good place with our money, so we give quite cheerfully.
But I can't say with any certainty that we would do the same if we were struggling with money. We would probably still give to our church, but probably not so cheerfully. Instead, we would give out of our feelings of obligation or even guilt.
September 25, 2008
sloopy said »
Hey Geertsma. I think you are right. It is easy to say you give cheerfully when you are not in debt. However, things change when you have other obligations. I don't think that means you should not give, because you should. I do think that it is hard to say your feelings should be the same whether you are in debt or not. I think this because God calls us to repay our debts. Therefore, we should feel obligated to worry about paying our debt back.
September 25, 2008
Jenn said »
Sloppy, I completely disagree with you when you say "we should be obligated to worry", that contradicts everything the bible instructs about worry. The bible tells us not to worry about ANYTHING. Worry is completely of the enemy to keep us from finding and fulfilling Gods calling on our life.
September 25, 2008
sloopy said »
Jenn, so what would you say about paying back debts? I understand your view on not worrying; however, does that mean not to feel obligated to pay debts? I guess I don't understand how one can not worry about paying debts (something we should do) when money is going elsewhere.
October 01, 2008
Jenn said »
Hi Sloppy, Of course it does not mean we should shuck the responsibility of our debt. Debt is something that we create. If we take out a loan or apply for a credit card or even have a mortgagee we know at the time we apply that we will have to pay back whatever the debt is. I guess my point is really when you think about worrying what does it accomplish? In any given situation or circumstance what are the worst case scenarios? If we default on a credit card a loan or even a mortgagee what is the absolute worst thing that could happen? Worrying about it is not going to change or fix any situation, it will however open the door for the enemy to come in and create false illusions in our mind. Will I go to jail, will somebody think iof me as less of a person or will they think I am irresponsbile? It will also breakdown our ability to seek God for the answers of how we are to fix the mess that we have created for ourselves. I can not speak for everybody, but I can tell you I have spent a lot of time worry about what I will do with different things and what I have learned over the years is that it has not changed anything for me. BUT now that I am older and have been through some stuff I realize that if I seek the leading of the Holy Spirit BEFORE I make a commitment to take out credit of any kind and he give me the lead to move forward I can promise you he will make provision to pay whatever debit I have accrued. Our problem as a society is that we tend to want more than we can afford. Does this make sense?
I know it is hard, but worrying is showing a lack of faith that God will meet our needs. Sometimes we will be pulled and stretched, but IF we stand on what the word says and eb in prayer we can help[ ourselves with the decision we make, thus leaviing less room for worry.
October 01, 2008
sloopy said »
Jenn, I understand your view, but the problem I have is with debt that was not your choice. For example, you have racked up hospital bills due to a sickness. That is debt that you need to pay back. Going into debt is not always a choice that someone can choose not to make.
I guess I feel that worrying is part of the faith we have in God. If you never worry about anything, then what are you really counting on God for? However, if you do worry, but still give, then you are saying that you have faith that God will take care of you...of your worries.
October 06, 2008